Category talk:Avalon Clan

I think in this case we should keep it in the gargoyles category. The humans are honorary members. Elisa is an honorary member of Manhattan Clan, does that mean it isn't a gargoyle clan? It is not the same situation as the Labyrinth clan, which is almost half mutates, and was founded by mutates. -- Vaevictis Asmadi 10:12, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

I think all of these clans are "gargoyles clans" in that they are family groups of the sort typically found in gargoyle societies, and arranged along similar lines. That doesn't require that all members be gargoyles. (I think even the Labyrinth Clan probably qualifies as a "gargoyle clan" under this definition.)

Now, a GargWiki user (perhaps one entirely unfamiliar with the fandom, if such people exist) that browses the "Gargoyles" category would be justified in thinking that every subpage of "Category:Gargoyles" (no matter how deep) would be about a gargoyle. It wouldn't be hard to imagine their confusion when they click on the link to Magus or Talon. Therefore, being contained in (even a subcategory of) "Category:Gargoyles" does require that the character is a gargoyle.

(And bear in mind also that every gargoyle character is already contained in the base "Category:Gargoyles", so there's no real need for subcats anyway.)

That said, if you still disagree with these opinions, then by all means make the changes. Or we could try to find a compromise here on the talk page. What do you think? -- Supermorff 11:00, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

I'm just not sure that honorary human members should be in the category. If they are to be included, then an explanatory note should forestall any confusion. -- Vaevictis Asmadi 22:25, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

We may be using different definitions of "honorary members". Elisa is a member of the Manhattan Clan because (a) she considers herself to be one, and (b) because other members of the clan consider her to be one. Anyone who should have a say in the matter would call her a member of the clan. But she's also got a life outside the clan. She's got her own home, her own (human) family, a job, etc. I would be happy to call her an "honorary member".

Katharine, Tom and the Magus are members of the Avalon Clan, since they also meet conditions (a) and (b). And in addition, they have no life beyond their clan. They have wholeheartedly adopted the role of rookery parents, in traditional gargoyle custom. And without the three of them, there would have been no clan at all. In my opinion, their memberships are absolute.

If you're still not convinced, then we'll need to start working towards a compromise. -- Supermorff 05:20, 8 June 2007 (CDT)

Keep in mind that by Gargoyles:2198 most of the Labyrinth Clan is made up of gargoyles. And in any case, Greg Weisman refers to them as a gargoyle clan. --Matt

I also refer to them as a gargoyle clan. But I see this discussion as relating more to GargWiki policy. To solve the problem, we just need to establish an equitable precedent.

Also, I think you are assuming more of Gargoyles: 2198 than is in evidence. There certainly are still gargoyles in the Labyrinth Clan at that time, but I have seen nothing to suggest that the clan is lacking in mutate members (and very little to suggest that it still has mutate members either). In relation to the Avalon Clan, I have also seen Greg Weisman specifically refuse to answer whether or not Tom specifically was still alive in 2198 (that answer here). Even then it is possible that not all members are gargoyles (though they may be). -- Supermorff 05:20, 8 June 2007 (CDT)