Talk:Gargoyles (TV series)

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Revision as of 09:26, 16 November 2008 by Supermorff (talk | contribs) (→‎''The Gargoyle'')
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History section

One thing that would really improve this article would be a History section, with info on:

  • Comedy development
  • Addition of Goliath and transformation into action-drama
  • Various pitches
  • Rejections and then acceptance by Disney
  • Working on first season
  • Renewal for second season
  • Cancelleation
  • Goliath Chronicles
  • Ten year hiatus, fans, Gatherings, etc

We can mention the comic, but at that point it may be best to direct users to the comic page itself.

There are loads of anecdotes throughout Ask Greg that could make such a history section quite long and really interesting. Any agree/disagree? Thoughts? -- Supermorff 03:35, 16 February 2008 (CST)

I think this is a great idea. I keep feeling like we should have more of the background information on the show revealed by "Ask Greg" and other sources on the wiki. I wrote up a description of the comedy development drawing from the "Ask Greg" archives. Since the comedy development went through a lot of revisions, the main focus in on the characters who would later evolve into the cast of the final show. This is obviously a big undertaking so I'll be doing it in chunks. Any help or corrections are, of course, greatly appreciated. -- Demonskrye 10:51, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Great work so far. I really tried to give this a go, but I just couldn't get started. But, yeah, great work. Keep it up! -- Supermorff 13:50, 19 February 2008 (CST)
Great work so far, Demonskyre. Honestly, I'm glad you feel up to taking on this page. It is one we really need, I think, but one I'm not excited about working on. Thanks! -- Matt 17:31, 19 February 2008 (CST)
Thanks for the votes of confidence. I did some minor edits on the comedy development (pointing out a few concepts that made it through to the final show) and started in on the section on "The Gargoyle", which I intend to add to later. One thing I'm wondering about, how should we refer to real world people if we use their name more than once? For example, if I were to write "In 1991, Greg Weisman had a pineapple on his head", what would I call him in the next sentence? "Greg"? "Weisman"? "Mr. Weisman"? Just repeat "Greg Weisman"? For the time being I'm referring to Tad Stones as "Mr. Stones", but what do you think it should be? -- Demonskrye 14:09, 21 February 2008 (CST)
Out of habit, I tend to repeat the whole name. I think that using a first name is probably not a good idea, in general, although any of the other options are fine. -- Supermorff 07:01, 22 February 2008 (CST)

Do we know that "The Gargoyle" specifically fought in the Battle of Britain? I'm actually having a rather tough time reliably finding all of the memos on the pre-development of "Gargoyles" at Ask Greg. I can't seem to find a category for them and they don't seem to be in with the ramblings either. I got the comedy development stuff by searching for terms like "comedy" and "Dakota" and "Amp". But searching for "The Gargoyle" is going to be an exercise in futility. Has anyone got a reliabel way to look at all the early development docs? -- Demonskrye 07:19, 23 February 2008 (CST)

I was pretty sure that there was an image of the Gargoyles fighting in the Battle of Britain that was used in one of the early pitches. Actually, that may have been later, while Goliath was still immortal but the other gargoyles weren't. I don't remember definitively, and I can't find a citation of it right now.
Anyway, I have just trawled through the entire 740 archive of Greg's Rambles (it's not as bad as it sounds, since about 200 of the Rambles are TDIGUH, which I skipped quickly). Here is a list of all rambles that are likely to be appropriate. Some you will have already found, but I'm including them anyway. I've left off things like episode memos. I haven't read these all through. They are in the order they came up in on the search (reversed), and may or may not be in chronological order. -- Supermorff 10:05, 23 February 2008 (CST)

List

  • 114. More archives material... - A memo dated 12/4/95 to one of the earliest writers to work on the project, about the five-part pilot. All the names seem to have been finalized, except Xanatos is still called Xavier.

Comedy development

  • 115. A real fossile... - The earliest file on the series, dated 3/11/91. (Reprint: 297.)
  • 116. Another tidbit - 3/12/91. (Reprint: 298.)
  • 299. Notes from a lunch meeting... - A memo, written before 3/20/91 by an associate (perhaps Kat Fair), about the comedy development. The modern human ally is described as a "nerd female" and she is a scientist working for the main villain, referred to as "evil 3piece/ex-mage".
  • 300. Early comedy development... - Notes from a Development Staff Meeting 3/20/91, again probably written by Kat Fair. For the first time, gargs turn to stone while sleeping. The castle-atop-a-skyscraper appears too. A mention of Trump Tower suggests that the modern setting is indeed New York. The villains are Nephew (pre-Xavier), Sorcerer (who put the gargoyles to sleep 1000 years earlier) and Sidekick. The female ally (pre-Elisa) is now a curator, perhaps with a young sister or daughter. The name Morgan is mentioned, but not firmly attached to the character. A backstory including an ancient princess counterpart to the modern heroine is mentioned briefly.
  • 301. FIRST BLUSH COMEDY GARGS - 4/5/91. A list of 9 gargoyle characters for the early comedy development with bios, compiled by Kat Fair and Cindy Chupack: Nick, Cambell, Pan Dora, Isa Dora (pre-Coco/Broadway), Alice Fullmoon, Ralph Fullmoon (pre-Ralph/Hudson), Georgette (pre-Dakota/Demona), Trouble and Lassie. Nick was similar to Brooklyn, although he more resembled Lex. Lex shared characteristics with both Cambell and Lassie. Trouble and Lassie were both considered as sidekicks to the evil Nephew.
  • 302. More comedy characterizations... - 4/18/91. A refined list of characters, reduced from 9 to 6 gargoyles: Georgette (pre-Dakota/Demona, now the leader), Trouble (pre-Brooklyn/Lex, resembles Nick but demoted to second-in-command), Isa Dora (pre-Coco/Broadway), Pan Dora (no equivalent), Lassie (pre-Lex/Brook), Ralph (pre-Hudson). Three human characters are also mentioned: Xavier (pre-Xanatos, but somewhat ineffectual), Morgan (pre-Elisa, a museum curator) and Sorcy. The castle is described as having been moved from Northern England, not Scotland. Gargoyles are described as being released from stone sleep when they were dropped during the castle's move and their shells cracked open.
  • 303. Comedy development coming together... - 4/24/91. Another refinement. The cast is the same but several names have changed: Georgette is now Dakota, Trouble is Amp, Isa Dora is Cocoa [sic], Pan Dora is Pandora, Sorcy is Sidero. Sidero is described as having desired immortality and then being trapped inside The Mirror. The backstory is set in 15th century, not 10th. The gargoyles are still awakened when their stone shells are cracked.
  • 304. Enter Owen -- The Aardvark! - 5/8/91. Xavier's sidekick Owen is introduced for the first time, as an aardvark. Owen has a crush on Morgan. Morgan is slightly different but still a curator. Xavier is described as looking good in a tux, but is still ineffectual.
  • 306. Interns again... - Two memos written by interns Hoyland Ricks and Regina Dixon, with ideas for episodes of the comedy series, written 7/3/91. One of Regina Dixon's episodes mentions that Morgan is a teacher, but still with an interest in archaeology.
  • 307. Morgan starts to morph... - A memo presumably from September 1991. Morgan is now an engineer/inventor and former employee of Xavier who resents him for stealing her inventions. Owen is now Mr Owen and still has a crush on Morgan. Xavier's sorcerer ancestor is not mentioned, and Xavier himself seems more competent.
  • 308. Dakota's out. Demona's in. - Two memos, from 9/6/91 and 9/10/91. In the first, Dakota has been removed as leader of the gargoyles. Morgan is still an inventor, but rather than merely being Xavier's former employee, she is now his former partner on equal footing. She has a helicopter. The new leader seems to be Morgan herself, although Amp is De facto in charge in most cases. The second memo is a new backstory. The gargoyles are now from a Prussian town named Oldenberg, but the backstory is now in the 11th century. They were put to sleep not by a magic spell (again, Sidero is not mentioned) but by irate villagers who drugged them. They wake up when the castle is literally dropped into place. Dakota is now Demona, a power-hungry former leader of the gargoyles who quickly sided with Xavier upon waking. The notion of gargoyles protecting appears for the first time, although Greg Weisman doesn't like it because it doesn't fit with the comedy trappings of the show.
  • 309. THE LOST CAUSE DIAMOND (and other stories...) - A dateless, nameless memo from approximately September 1991. Morgan is affiliated with a museum again, but Demona appears as a character. Xavier wants big diamonds and immortality. Amp (pre-Lex/Brook) wants to go joyriding.
  • 310. TIME TO SELL... - The script of the first pitch for the comedy Gargoyles show, from September '91. Morgan's last name is Reed, and she's an amateur archaeologist and second grade teacher. Xavier's last name is Glint (formerly "Xavier" itself has been his last name). Xavier's ancestor is called Xavier, and again was responsible for putting the gargoyles to sleep (again, by drugs). The backstory is firmly set "one thousand years ago". Amp still looks like Lex, but is far more like Brooklyn. Coco (spelled this way for the first time) is now much like Broadway, and is described as "a female John Belushi". Xavier's main motivation is attaining immortality. DeMona is spelled with a capital M in the middle. Xavier's henchmen are some "muscular 3-piece suits" (the origin of both the Goon Squad and the Steel Clan).
  • 311. Another trip to the drawing board... - 11/14/91. The backstory (before and after 1000 year sleep) is reworked, and written up by Fred Schaefer and (possibly) Kat Fair. Both Xavier and Morgan now have 10th century ancestors that knew the gargoyles, both of whom are powerful wizards, but it is not clear which is good and which is evil. (In Kat Fair's memo, the ancestors are known as Morgan and Xavier, although Fred Schaefer's memo mentions Xavier's ancestor as Sidero.) In one of two potential 10th century backstories, the gargoyles' main job is protecting people. In the other possible 10th century backstory, the gargoyles are from a small town outside Paris. For the first time, modern-day Morgan is a police officer (actually the Police Chief). The notion of Morgan being scared when she witnesses a gargoyle (Amp) for the first time are introduced. Although Xavier's ancestor appears in the backstory, Xavier (spelled "Xaxier" in Fred Schaefer's memo) works alone as a villain in modern day. While sleeping for 1000 years, the gargoyles are intentionally positioned on "their favorite perch" on the castle. The idea of gargoyles being servants of the 10th century villain appears.
  • 312. Gargoyles protect... - 11/20/91. A document by Kat Fair pulling the threads together. A handwritten note by Greg says that gargoyles are protectors that are treated like dogs. Again, both Morgan and Xavier have ancestors: Evil Wizard Morgan and Good Wizard Xavier. Again, the gargoyles are for a time servants of the Evil Wizard Morgan. The gargoyles are put to sleep either by a spell (by Morgan) or by a magic drug/potion. Again, the gargoyles are intentionally placed on the castle.

The Gargoyle

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